Channel 3000, February 3, 2017.
Last Week
There’s a lot to report from last week’s three transportation-related committee/commission meetings. The Pedestrian, Bike, and Motor Vehicle Commission (PBMVC) started out with another quarterly Traffic Enforcement Activity Report. I pressed Lt. Knight (again) to bring us more actionable information. You can see an example of the report and spreadsheet that is presented each quarter. It’s a lot of data, which basically just shows how much work the Traffic Enforcement team has put in. Citations go up and down based on hours worked and don’t really tell us anything about trends in dangerous activities. Instead, I argued that we need analysis of crash data that helps us pinpoint the leading causes and locations of collisions resulting in injury and loss of life. From there, we would be able to start working on interventions to address these issues. While we should be encouraged that Madison ranked third best in the nation in the recently released Dangerous by Design report, it’s still clear that pedestrian and bicyclists make up a disproportionate number of traffic fatalities in our city. This is definitely an area where we need to look to the data to guide our work.
Next up at PBMVC was a motion to recommend approval of the draft Madison in Motion Sustainable Master Transportation Plan. I’ve been critical of this plan in the past, calling out the lack of specific and clearly articulated action items, lack of accountability, and absence of performance measures. Without these things, this plan is destined to collect dust on the shelf. I shared those comments again here beginning at 00:32:30.
There was also a good discussion about a proposal to complete the Demetral Path connection (you can watch via the link above beginning at 01:00:00). This is an updated proposal from the one that came forward almost a year ago that would have had a significant impact on the OM Village. The new concept (see above) proposes to move the path through the existing parking lot of the commercial building to the north. I enthusiastically support closing this gap as it will become a major corridor for people on bikes once the bike facilities are added to E. Johnson as part of that project. However, I did ask Engineering to explore an alternate routing of this connector within the public right of way. This would save the city $300K in land acquisition costs and would avoid several problems associated with the current proposed alignment. PBMVC voted to refer the item to its February meeting and asked that Engineering develop in detail that alternate concept for further evaluation.
The Transportation Ordinance Rewrite Committee meeting on Wednesday was an engaging one. This ad hoc committee has been meeting since last March to propose revisions to Madison’s current transportation ordinance and is aiming to finalize its recommendation over the next month. The main focus of the group to date has been on a major overhaul to the city’s existing transportation commission/committee structure that would see the dissolution of all seven of the existing commissions/committees/subcommittees (and their up to 54 members) and replace them with two new bodies: the Transportation Policy and Planning Board and a Transportation Commission. While I support the efforts to bring together the different elements of our transportation system, I’m not convinced of the wisdom of splitting transportation policy and planning from operations and implementation. I think there is tremendous value in having the policy and planning decisions driven off of the real life issues that are identified and addressed through operations and implementation. I’m also concerned with the massive cut to the number of citizen members and the negative impact that would have. Another major concern, is that the current proposal eliminates all mode-specific commissions (Transit and Parking & Pedestrian/Bike/Motor Vehicle) along with all requirements to have membership that represents users of transit or bikes or walking or the disabled. These are major concerns that require significant deliberation before moving forward.
And yet in some ways, this massive proposed reorganization of our committee structure pales in comparison to the issue of whether or not the city should fill its long vacant Director of Transportation position. This position has been vacant for well over a decade and many of the issues identified by this body would be directly addressed by filling this position. There was compelling public testimony along those lines from former alders Robbie Webber and Satya Rhodes-Conway who both made strong arguments for the importance of filling this critical leadership position. The members of the ad hoc committee seemed to hear the message clearly and will continue to debate the question at their next scheduled meeting on 2/6.
On Thursday, the Long Range Transportation Planning Committee met and voted to recommend approval of a resolution calling for Establishing Goals for Regional Transit Authority Legislation. This resolution describes the city’s intent to work with surrounding communities to define how an RTA might be structured with the ultimate goal of gaining approval from the State at a later date. An RTA would provide the needed funding to continue to regionalize Metro to more fully connect with surrounding communities outside of the city limits.
Madison Bikes closed out the busy week with our board of directors retreat where we focused on strategic planning for 2017. Watch for more details around opportunities for membership, new events, and more focused work on advocacy. If you’re interested in getting involved, head to our website and drop us a note.
This Week
Tuesday: Consider attending this talk by Global Health Institute Assistant Scientist Jason Vargo and Research Fellow Maggie Grabow entitled Helping Cities Quantify the Health Benefits of Active Travel (4:30pm) or find out more about how a new parking garage on East Main Street will accommodate bikes and impact travel at the Cap East Parking Structure Design Open House (5pm). For Eastsiders, there’s a public input session to develop a Cottage Grove Road Activity Centers Plan at Olbrich Gardens (6:00pm). While it’s not a transportation specific plan, it’s important to have the needs of cyclists represented for these land-use/development/neighborhood plans.
Wednesday: On Wednesday, the Madison Area Transportation Planning Board meets to review the draft Regional Transportation Plan. This is nearing completion and will likely start its rotation through city committees soon.
Friday: Kick off Madison Bike Winter Week with the Frozen Assets fat bike race.
Saturday: Winter Bike Week continues with a Family Music at the Cargo Bike Shop and the Capital Goldsprint Series at Motorless Motion Bicycles.
Sunday: On Sunday, Madison Bikes offers a Fat Bike Sled Pull as part of the Frozen Assets Festival! Sunday also marks the start of our Winter Bike Challenge
Check out all the Bike Winter events here on website or RSVP on Facebook, including the Monday morning commuter station on 2/6 in front of Machinery Row.
For details on any of these events, head to the Madison Bikes calendar. If you have an event that you’d like added, send the details to info@madisonbikes.org.
Last Week
Madison Bikes Events and Communications Committees met last week to make final preparations for Madison Bike Winter Week. Madison Winter Bike Week will be from February 3 to 10. Stay tuned for more details coming this week!
This Week
Looks like we’ll have at least one more warm day on Monday before winter comes back. If you’re looking for a social ride, consider joining the MEATheads leaving Ford’s Gym at 7:00pm sharp and looping around Lake Monona.
On Tuesday, the Ped/Bike/Motor Vehicle Commission has a full agenda.
City transportation meetings continue on Wednesday with the Transportation Ordinance Rewrite Committee and on Thursday with the Long Range Transportation Planning Commission.
On Saturday, there’s another social ride, this time organized by Bombay Bicycle Club.
For details on any of these events, head to the Madison Bikes calendar. If you have an event that you’d like added, send the details to info@madisonbikes.org.
Happy Martin Luther King Jr. Day! It’ll be another relatively quiet week for bike events in Madison.
This Week
There are three options to get involved on Monday. For those living or frequenting the isthmus, Marquette Neighborhood Association Traffic Committee meets at Wil-Mar at 5:30. The Madison Bikes Events Committee will meet at Barriques on Atwood at 6:00 to finalize plans for Madison Winter Bike Week. This is one of the things that may happen during that week:
And at 7:00 Freewheel Community Bike Shop will hold its annual stakeholder meeting. Freewheel is a community bicycle workshop run by volunteers with a range of bicycle skills that seeks to serve the low-income community in Madison, encourage bicycle ridership, and demystify bicycle maintenance.
On Tuesday, there’s another opportunity to work with Madison Bikes by attending the Communications Committee meeting (5:30 at Great Dane Hilldale). Email harald@madisonbikes.org if you’re interested in attending.
For details on any of these events, head to the Madison Bikes calendar. If you have an event that you’d like added, send the details to info@madisonbikes.org.
I hope everyone had some time to relax and rejuvenate over the holidays. It was great to see a number of you out on your bikes celebrating in style on the New Year’s Ride.
This Week
On Monday, Madison Bikes has its monthly board meeting at the Central Library. This meeting is open to the public and anyone who’s interested in getting involved in 2017 should consider attending.
After that, it’s a pretty quiet week until Saturday: If you’re headed to the Brazen Dropouts Bike Swap, make sure and stop by the Madison Bikes table to say hi. We’ll have our remaining Madison Bikes winter edition T-shirts for sale.
And for women interested in taking a fat bike out for a spin, Bell Joy Ride and Revolution Cycles are teaming up with Surly for a demo at the Quarry Ridge trails.
For details on any of these events, head to the Madison Bikes calendar. If you have an event that you’d like added, send the details to info@madisonbikes.org.
Categories
Best of 2016 Blog Posts
Year One for Madison Bikes is coming to a close (don’t forget about our fundraising drive!). Here is our top ten of blog posts from 2016, in chronological order.
1. Madison Bikes Launches
Our organization officially launched during Bike Week in May! This was a big moment for us.
2. Biking with Out-of-Towners
We met Elysha at a Cap Times talk on biking in Madison. She told us how she loved her family’s car-light life in Madison and how she spread that love when they had friends visiting from out of town.
See the rest of the list after the break.
3. Ride the Drive
Ride the Drive is a highlight on Madison’s bike calendar. See the many pictures of happy people on bike that we took during the event.
4. Bike commuting in Madison: More stagnation
A less happy post: According to the annual Census numbers, the stagnation in bike commuting in Madison continues.
5. Little Victories: Improving Bike Parking, Two Racks at a Time
There are many ways in which citizens can make a difference and improve biking conditions in Madison. This posts showcases one such way.
6. Biking in Middleton – Turning Something Bad Into Something Good
Here’s another example of one person organizing the community and making a difference for people riding bikes in Middleton.
7. Urban Bike Adventures with Kids
Our board member Emily takes her family on urban (and sometimes rural) bike adventures year round. Read her tips and suggestions.
8. Winter Bike Photo Submissions
Leading up to the Winter Bike Fashion Show, we asked you to submit your favorite winter biking pictures. See some of the highlights in this post.
9. How to dress for winter
Jacob shares his tips for how to stay comfortable riding your bike during the cold season.
10. Winter Bike Fashion Show
The Fashion Show itself was a great success! Between Rob’s photos and Emily’s write-up, this blog post does a terrific job of documenting the event.
Special Category: Grant’s Calendar Round-ups
PBMVC, LRTPC, Open House, Master Plan, …. Keeping track of what’s going on with bike advocacy in any given week is hard. But thanks to Grant’s tireless efforts, every Monday since August we have published a concise digest of important events. The Calendar Review is on winter break but will return to the blog in January.
Last Week
Members of the Long Range Transportation Planning and Transit & Parking Commissions received presentations and provided feedback on the UW Campus Master Plan and the Madison Comprehensive Plan updates last week. These are both long range plans that offer a look into what city and university staff are thinking in relation to our transportation future. You can watch a recording of the presentations and discussion here thanks to the City Channel.
This Week
On Monday, the Madison Bikes Events Committee meets at Barriques on Atwood to continue planning for Winter Bike Week. Everyone is welcome to attend!
On Wednesday, celebrate winter solstice and the longest night of the year by joining Madison Bike Winter for their annual Fantasy in Lights ride including a stop at the Olbrich Park solstice bonfire.
I’ll be taking the following week off and back with weekly updates after the new year. See you in 2017!
2017 Fundraising Drive: We match your donations!
From now until December 31st you have a great opportunity to double the impact of your gift by supporting Madison Bikes!
We as members of the Madison Bikes board have agreed to match any donation received during the rest of the year, up to a total of $500! Your support helps us to work for improved biking in Madison and will help lay the groundwork for our advocacy and education projects in 2017.
By making a contribution today, your gift will go twice as far as we fight for better conditions for people on bikes in Madison. Please consider making a tax deductible donation now to support our cause.
For details on any of these events, head to the Madison Bikes calendar. If you have an event that you’d like added, send the details to info@madisonbikes.org.
Last Week
The Bicycle Facility Maintenance Workgroup continued its work on drafting a bikeway maintenance policy for the Public Works departments; Bike Fitchburg hosted its Holiday Shindig; the city held two public engagement sessions to kick off its Imagine Madison campaign (Madison’s Comprehensive Plan update); and on Saturday, the Santa Cycle Rampage rolled through town.
This Week
On Monday, the Madison Bikes Board will hold its annual meeting to approve the 2017 budget and elect officers. At the same time, the UW will hold another Neighborhood Open House on its Campus Master Plan Update (which includes a controversial proposal to take away space from bike facilities on University Avenue).
Tuesday, Madison Bikes Advocacy Committee will hold its monthly meeting at the newly reopened Rathskeller and will look to start narrowing down its priorities for 2017.
And on Wednesday there will be a joint Long Range Transportation Planning Committee/Transit and Parking Commission meeting to review the transportation elements of the UW Campus Master Plan Update.
For details on any of these events, head to the Madison Bikes calendar. If you have an event that you’d like added, send the details to info@madisonbikes.org.
http://imgur.com/oFqWe2R
Santa Cycle Rampage 2015 (Photo credit: Peter Gray)
Last Week
Last week the Pedestrian, Bicycle, Motor Vehicle Commission voted not to approve the proposed cross section geometry for Monroe Street that repeats the existing, car-centric cross section with no improved access for people on bikes and very limited treatments for people on foot. The proposal will move on to the Board of Public Works in two weeks and the Council will vote on it in January. PBMVC also received an update on the E. Johnson Street /First Street project which has shifted from the unbuffered 4′ bike lanes on Johnson to a 2-way segregated path from Baldwin to First. You can watch the meeting online here.
The first public meeting of the John Nolen Drive and Blair Street corridor study was well attended with an overwhelming ask to improve conditions for people on bike and people on foot. The city plans to reconstruct the sections of Wilson/Williamson closest to Blair in 2018. The plan is to do that work in a way that will support a later reconstruction of Blair Street, including the intersection itself (that work is not currently scheduled). The presentation is available on the project web page here.
This Week
On Monday, the Bicycle Facility Maintenance Workgroup meets to continue review of a draft bikeway maintenance policy for the Public Works departments and Bike Fitchburg hosts a Holiday Shindig at Roman Candle.
Imagine Madison is the name for Madison’s Comprehensive Plan update. The first public meeting will be on Monday at the Central Library with a second chance for the same content on Wednesday at the Villager Mall
If you’re interested in helping support the work of Madison Bikes, consider heading over to Cafe Hollander at Hilldale on Tuesday for the Madison Bikes Communication Committee meeting. Email harald@madisonbikes.org if you’d like to attend.
And on Saturday, it’s Madison’s turn for the Santa Cycle Rampage.
For details on any of these events, head to the Madison Bikes calendar. If you have an event that you’d like added, send the details to info@madisonbikes.org.
Thanks to everyone who came out to enjoy the Madison Bikes Winter Fashion Show! For those of you in attendance you know a good time was had by all. And for those who missed out on the fun, here’s a recap of the afternoon.
At the High Noon Saloon a great crowd gathered to mingle, share stories and tips for winter riding, and to chat with the hosts of the winter bike stations. At the winter bikes stations, folks had an a opportunity to chat with the bike owners about how they have winterized their bikes, what gear they wear to stay warm, and about their favorite winter rides. Winter bike stations were hosted by
Tim Staton from the Cargo Bike Shop. He had his Urban Arrow Family cargo bike with electric assist on display
Elysha Jones (remember her guest post on our blog?) also brought her bakfiets (Dutch for “box bike”)
Harald Kliems rides a “heavily evolved,” as he calls it, Surly Cross-Check year round
Matt DeBlass, our show’s MC from Revolution Cycles, arrived at the High Noon on his Surly Ogre–just one of many bikes he rides during winter.
Finnley Sonnemann showed off his 20-inch tired Specialized fat bike
The runway show itself started with Matt summarizing the varying conditions to expect when winter riding. Our volunteer models showed a variety of gear, ranging from more technical wear to things just about everyone has in their Wisconsin winter collection (or can find at the thrift store).
Our 2016 Madison Bikes Winter Fashion Show Models:
Tom Pearce
Tom is a graduate student in urban and regional planning at the UW. He commutes daily, two miles from the near west side to Park Street. Tom rides a Giant Yukon mountain with a studded tire on the front wheel. Why only in the front? Crashes where the front wheel loses traction are the most dangerous. And not also having a studded tire in the back helps to keep the cost and additional resistance of studded tires in check.
Tom was wearing casual work clothes with the following winter layers: short boots, wool socks, fleece, winter jacket, triple mittens, scarf, and a ski helmet with old goggles. On extra cold below zero days he also wears rain pants, balaclava and petroleum jelly to protect his skin.
Michael Jones
Over this past summer Michael bought a home in the Dudgeon-Monroe neighborhood. He chose the area in part because of its proximity to both bike paths and mountain biking trails. Through participating in a number of Madison group rides and events like Bike the Barns he is coming to be a part of the local cycling community. He sees this fashion show as yet another opportunity to meet people who share his passion for cycling.
Michael was wearing a Castelli Podium Jacket worn over a Pearl Izumi long sleeve jersey and a Craft Wind-stopper Base layer. Over his legs he typically wears a pair of Castelli fleece-lined bib tights under Fox Mountain bike shorts. On his feet he finds that Smartwool socks inside a pair of Lake MXZ 303 cycling boots works great. Hand protection varies depending on the temperature and wind conditions.
Nicole Nelson
Nicole Nelson is a professor at UW-Madison who commutes by bike year round. When her old car had her going to the shop repeatedly for expensive repairs, she sold it to her mechanic for $600 and bought a bike with that money. She has been a bike commuter ever since. When she’s not at work, Nicole loves to sew clothes, quilts, and occasionally outdoor gear for herself and her partner.
Nicole was wearing a North Face down jacket; neck gaiter, hat, and mitts all made of Merino wool; and Merrell boots. For those extra windy days, she has her ski goggles at the ready. And underneath it all, she’s ready for work with dress pants and a blouse that she designed and sewed herself.
Elysha Jones
Elysha Jones has been living in Madison for 5 years with husband, Scott, and their two little girls, Abby and Clementine. Originally from St. Louis, MO, they came to Madison because they wanted to live somewhere bike friendly. Since living here they went from being a two-car family to a one-car family, and for about 4 months they even didn’t have a car at all! They have totally embraced the bicycling life in Madison.
Elysha is wearing leggings, hand-knit knee-high socks, snow boots, a skirt, a thermal shirt under her sweater, a coat, gloves, a cowl, and helmet with a liner. Her little girl, Clementine, wears her normal clothes with snow pants and coat mittens over them. Clementine rides in the family bakfiets with the “bubble” (their name for the cover) and a blanket.
Jim Lorman
Jim Lorman has been riding bikes in Madison winters for 43 years! First to and from UW as a graduate student, and then to Edgewood College as a faculty member and now as Community Partnership Specialist for the Social Innovation and Sustainability Leadership Program. Not too many years ago, he realized that it he was really tired of the sore body parts that came from slipping and falling while riding on snow and ice, and has since relied on studded tires on a dedicated winter bike, a heavy-duty Schwinn cruiser. Jim is hoping that the Medicare benefits he just acquired this month won’t disappear during the next four years. But even if they don’t, he would prefer not to have to use them as a result of his dedication to biking in the first place.
Having been at this for over forty years, his outfit emphasizes an “old school” philosophy of dressing for winter biking. “Nothing too high tech for this old man,” is Jim’s philosophy. Simply long underwear (usually lightweight, and often silk for its comfort), jeans, waterproof boots, wool socks (with silk liners in colder weather), and three to four layers of various thicknesses on top, usually including a wool sweater and always a thin waterproof shell. He has maybe six different pairs of gloves and mittens of various degrees of waterproofness and insulation. But today he’s wearing his favorite pair for the coldest weather – wool liners with leather mitten shells. Jim’s special winter tip: A good warm scarf wound tightly around his hat and face and tucked into his coat to keep warmth in and cold out.
Lyllie Sonnemann
Lyllie is 8 years old. She enjoys riding all year and has been riding her bike about a mile to school every day of her school career! For winter riding, she enjoys riding her green fat bike.
To keep warm, Lyllie wears her regular school clothes underneath snow pants, a down winter jacket, warm home-made mittens, hat, neck warmer and, on the coldest days, ski goggles.
Finnley Sonnemann
Finn is 6 years old and also enjoys riding his bike no matter the season. Like his sister he rides about a mile to get to school each day, on his blue and orange fat bike.
To keep warm, Finn wears snow pants, winter jacket, hat, home-made mittens, and neck warmer. On super cold days he adds ski goggles to his outfit.
The Foster Family
Winter biking has become a family affair for the Fosters. This will be the third winter of the whole family riding daily.
Kai
Kai wears a good thick coat, warm and waterproof mittens, winter boots, and a balaclava. Sometimes Kai takes a quick walk outside in the morning to gauge the weather and calibrate his outfit.
Sage
Sage wears a winter coat, mittens, hat, boots, and a balaclava. When it’s very cold, he sometimes adds snow pants and ski goggles. A sweatshirt underneath provides extra warmth.
Jenifer
Jenifer demonstrates that pants are optional for cycling in the winter — she doesn’t own a single pair of pants. Her winter biking wear consists of Smartwool tights and wool socks with wool-lined waterproof winter boots. She has her usual skirt and layered top, with a base layer Smartwool top, turtleneck and wool sweater. On extra cold days she’ll add wool arm warmers, a hand knit cowl and wool vest. To keep in the heat she tops it off with a merino balaclava and ear warmers. When it’s extra chilly, she’ll wear her ski goggles as well.
Grant
Grant has a longish commute at 8 miles and often travels to offsite meetings throughout the day. He lacks the patience to change between ‘bike’ clothes and ‘work’ clothes, and has found success wearing ‘regular’ clothes on the bike.
For his feet, it’s extra-thick wool socks and lightly insulated boots on normal days. When it drops below zero, he’ll add extra liner socks and heavier Sorel boots. He likes a thin merino liner glove under big mittens for his hands. A pair of wool leggings under his favorite Swrve pants is enough to keep his legs warm, with a second pair of leggings for below zero conditions. Most days he wears a merino shirt with a wool sweater on top–no coat necessary–and layers an extra shirt when it gets really cold. He doesn’t use ski goggles until the temperature gets into the single digits. When he does add goggles, he finds a ski helmet to be much more comfortable with its goggle strap. The Smartwool balaclava and headband are his favorite pieces, and he wears them from 40 degrees down to the coldest temps.
Impromptu addition to the model roster
Bike station host Harald discussing his recipe for winter riding during the intermission
After a short intermission our models returned to the stage for a Q&A session. Audience members had a chance to ask questions about gear, winter riding tips, or the best parts of winter riding. A big cheer came from the crowd when our model Jim Lorman described his favorite part of winter biking: To zoom past cars that are inching along on the snowy roads or even plain stuck
Some of the winter riding tips:
- Try studded tires! Even just one studded tire on the front of your bike can add a lot of stability in icy conditions. Keep in mind that studs don’t help in the snow.
- Riding gets easier as the season goes on. Cold and rainy conditions can often be worse than snow or dry cold. So don’t stop riding too soon!
- Ski goggles can make a big difference in reducing the wind and cold in your eyes. For people wearing prescription glasses, there are goggles specifically made to fit over glasses. A cheap alternative to ski goggles are protective goggles from the hardware store.
- Don’t overdress! Leave the house feeling a bit chilly, you’ll warm up as you ride and will avoid over heating. This is especially important when you go for a longer ride.
- Not everyone needs special winter cycling gear. Many of our models ride in their regular winter coats, boots, and mittens.
- Some models like a light wool layer. It provides warmth, some air ventilation, and is something that can be worn off the bike throughout the day.
- Give your bike a thorough tune up at the end of the riding season. Road salt is hard on components.
- Wipe water and salt off your bike when you can.
- Avoid bringing your bike in and out of cold weather for short periods of time. The melting water and salt can be worse than leaving the bike frozen.
- Hang your lock key-hole side down to avoid a frozen lock.
- Often the bike paths are plowed earlier and better than the streets.
- Riding in the quiet winter snow is a treat!
- Jacob’s guest post on how to dress in winter has some additional info
- Give winter biking a try! You don’t need any special equipment or gear. It’s a lot of fun! And there is no shame in occasionally taking the bus, walking, or cross-country skiing to do your errands!
A huge thank you goes out to all the volunteers who helped to make the show a success. Let’s also give kudos to Aaron Crandall for keeping Madison Bike Winter and previous editions of the Fashion Show over many years. A special thanks goes to Matt D for doing a great job as our MC and to our models and bike station hosts for sharing their winter biking tips. And thank you very much, Rob Streiffer, for taking great pictures of the show! Big kudos go to Aaron Crandall, who has kept Madison Bike Winter and the Winter Bike Fashion Show going for many years. Finally, we are so appreciative of the great support of our sponsors who generously donated to our door prize contest.
- EVP Coffee for coffee cards
- Revolution Cycles for fun ear muffs, a water bottle filled with bike tools, and lots of packets of Revolution Roast coffee
- REI for a sport backpack filled with a water bottle and a neck warmer
- Planet Bike for a great collection of winter biking gloves, shoe covers, bike pumps and a variety of lights!
If you missed the Madison Bikes Winter Fashion Show, be sure to look for it again next year! Happy Winter Riding! See you during Winter Bike Week in February!
Madison Bikes winter t-shirts. We still have some left!